Rachel Byrne:
We are lucky to have Peter Trojic joining us today. Peter is a dancer, a performer, and an artist who is from New York City, but currently in Atlanta. And we are just so thankful to have you joining us today. How are you Peter?
Peter Trojic:
I'm doing well. How are you?
Rachel Byrne:
I'm very well, thank you. Obviously it is giving Tuesday today. So I want to remind anyone who is watching to please make sure that if you can, any amount that you can give today to the Cerebral Palsy Foundation, we would be forever grateful. There's a couple of really easy ways to give, but yes, we would be absolutely thrilled if any of you can give a dollar, $2, $3, it doesn't matter what amount.
Rachel Byrne:
But Peter, enough about that and onto you. So, tell us a little bit about your background. obviously you and I met, I think now three years ago as part of design for disability, because you are an artist and a dancer, as I said, but I'd love for people to get a little bit, to know you.
Peter Trojic:
Okay, great. So I am going to be 33 in a week. Today, actually... Tomorrow. 33 in a week. And I grew up with cerebral palsy. So I've terrible cerebral palsy my whole life. And I started dancing in 2015, so almost six years ago. And I actually started with Heidi Laky Dance in New York City, doing a project called On Display. I use... Right now, I'm seated on my couch because I'm in my living room, but use a manual wheelchair, and I also use crutches to move around the world and dance, and just live.
Rachel Byrne:
And I must say, and we are going to share some of Peter's work on our page later today because it is absolutely a joy to watch you dance. I have had the fortunate experience to collaborate with a project with you. And yeah, it's just absolute joy, but going back a little bit, how did you even start to think about wanting to dance? Because obviously, that wasn't the career path that you would've originally chosen?
Peter Trojic:
No, I went to school for urban planning and environmental science. However, I secretly always wanted to act and I actually pursued it when I first went to college when I was 17. However, back then that was 2005, I didn't really see many performers with disabilities on screen, let alone performers with CP. So I was discouraged by that fact. And then in 2015, I was interviewing for jobs around the city and I was also rock climbing, because I found rock climbing for my embodiment, a very safe way for me to work out because I was attached to ropes. So if I fell off the wall, then I could not hurt myself.
Rachel Byrne:
Yeah. We all like that safety net, that's for sure.
Peter Trojic:
Exactly. So I was rock climbing, and someone I rock climbed with had mentioned he had met a choreographer who wanted to work with artists with disabilities. At the time I didn't know it was Heidi, and I had seen Heidi's work when I started to come into my own identity as a disabled person back, I think in 2009, 2010. And so, because of that, I had said to him, I was like, "I will only work with a choreographer if I meet them," because I'd learned from Heidi's work what dance and disability was lo and behold, it was Heidi.
Peter Trojic:
We did a project for the 25th anniversary of the ADA called It Go. And then around the same time she started a new project called On Display, which was gorilla installations of a sculpture court, or like a sculpture garden around New York City to commemorate the 25th anniversary of the ADA. And then fast forward a few months, she asked me to actually stay in the company and work with the company. And I continued doing On Display and evolving through that.
Peter Trojic:
And in 2016... No, in 2015 that December, we did something called On Display Global, where we worked with another dance company in Australia. So we had two sites and we did performances at the UN and NYU. And we simulcasted that with Australia, and we called it On Display Global. And then through the years on December 3rd for International Day of People with Disabilities, it has grown from there. So the next year I think we had 20 sites, and our goal for this year was to have a hundred sites, but COVID happened and we had to move everything online. So now we're doing it through Zoom on Thursday.
Rachel Byrne:
I think that thing, because it means now everybody can actually experience On Display Global and what it is, and we'll make sure we're going to be putting the links and things like that for everyone to come support that, I know between three to four Eastern time on Thursday,
Peter Trojic:
It's a 20 hour event, but Cerebral Palsy Foundation is hosting the three to four hour. So it'll have me and a few other people who've done in the past. And some new people who signed up around the world. Some of the performers have CP some don't, and it's just going to be an integration, so to speak. And I guess through On Display, I learned how to dance. I actually fell in love with dance. And last summer I decided to move down to Atlanta, Georgia and start working with another company down here called Full Radius Dance.
Peter Trojic:
And pre-pandemic I was going back and forth. And then the pandemic happened and I decided to stay in Georgia. And I think what the beauty of On Display Global is here is, I was upset that I couldn't do it with the company, but now because we're doing it on Zoom, I won't be missing out on anything because it's my sixth year and I didn't want to miss the sixth year of doing it.
Rachel Byrne:
I know, definitely. And I think we've got lots of people watching already. And so please we want to know where all you are watching from. So put it in the comments and let us know where you're actually from. Hi, [Myron 00:06:58], thank you so much for joining us. And I think Peter, my question to you is so when we think of dance and what dance looks like, or even performance and what you do, I know there's a couple of different ones that you do. So you obviously do solo performances that you also duets as well. Can you just go into when you are learning to dance? Because you really found dance, probably what, in your 20s?
Peter Trojic:
Yeah, my late 20s. So I was 27 at the time.
Rachel Byrne:
Which is really amazing. So I think it's for all of us, there is never this time where we are too old to start something new and you are definitely a wonderful example of that. And really thinking about finding things that we really find joyful. Let's just go back to that initial stage of like going, "All right, I'm going to go do this. I'm going to rip off the bandaid and I'm going to actually go do something that I've got so much passion for." Can you just describe some of those first initial feelings and the examples of even learning some of the components of dance?
Peter Trojic:
I was fortunate enough that when I started learning, I learned through On Display, which is a sculpture chord. So it taught me performance skills and how to be okay with being on stage, or in a staged area. As a person with a disability, there was that fear of always being looked at as different. And I saw On Display and dance as that opportunity to reclaim the gaze and sort of, say to people, "This is who I am," through dance, and "This is what I want you to see of me," because before I was a dancer, I was all about fitting in and blending on the crowd, which as a person with a disability, let alone a person in wheelchair or crutches, that's very hard to do. So that's something I dealt with most of my 20s, and my entire life before then.
Peter Trojic:
And through dance, I learned that my body was valid, not only as a dancer, but just as a human, and I started explore movement and how my body works, which is something I hadn't done prior. And I think in 2016, I remember I had been in Heidi's company for about, almost a year at that point. And I was feeling like, I didn't know where I was going to go to next. And I spoke to Heidi and we were talking about maybe doing a duet. And so, I started doing a duet with one of the dancers there in the company as well, her name's Jackie. And she was my first partner in the company and we had to really work to together and really just build communication on how to work with each other, but also work with the chair, because the chair, which I affectionately called, Timmy because it's from Ty light. So one day I was like, "Oh, his name is Timothy." So has nothing to do with self parking, in case [inaudible 00:10:18].
Peter Trojic:
So basically dancing with a wheelchair is already a duet in itself. And then adding a second or third person to that, that just makes it a trio or a quartet. And so, to dance with an able body dancer, not enable body, sorry, non disabled dancer, it really was hard, and I had to learn how to communicate. And I was fortunate enough that Jackie was open to the process, and Heidi was open to the process, and then three of us work together and you've seen it, like we have this duet where we move all each other. And I never would've expected that I would've been able to do that five years ago. And even to this day [crosstalk 00:11:04] yeah.
Rachel Byrne:
Actually a phenomenal performance to watch and to see, and the way that you use your chair, and the way that you actually do things together is just phenomenal. And we will be posting snippets of that to come. But what we really want people to do obviously is come watch you On Display Global on Thursday between three and four, but we will absolutely be sharing that.
Rachel Byrne:
So another question for you, we've actually got someone who's watching from Connecticut. We've got David who has just said, "I still try my best to dance with CP. My favorite dance ever was a dance I had with my mock wife at our wedding. I went to all my school dances. I just chose to make the best of it. No matter what." That's so beautiful. I think a lot of people who have been married and understand what that dance feels like, is really important. But I think this is what, when I look at what you and Jackie have done and your performance together, it is really such a phenomenal piece to watch. There's no doubt about that.
Peter Trojic:
Yes. I mean, I think dance is a great way to communicate. And I think as disabled people, especially as people with CP or as a person with CP, when I tell people I have CP they're surprised number one, because they assume that I don't, because I've just decided to go down this path. They assume that I was a dancer prior to an injury. So I had to say dancing really taught me how to understand my body. It just gave me a better sense of who I was as a person with cerebral palsy.
Peter Trojic:
And I think dancing, no matter your level of ability is important, just because even if it's in a social aspect, it's a part of life. I mean, we all have moments where we go to weddings or we go out with our friends and we want to dance. And so figuring out how to do that and being on unafraid or rather willing to take that leap is so important. And I think it just is like this great unifier, because when you're on the dance floor, I remember I love going to weddings. I've never been to my own wedding. Not yet at least, but I love going to weddings because you just can dance with a bunch of people on the floor. You may know them. You may not. And it's just this wonderful unifier and like, I look back in my life and I remember when I was on crutches and in summer camp or school dances, I would always dance.
Peter Trojic:
I remember even as a child, like a five, six year old, my mother would drag me and make me dance with her. And I didn't want to. And eventually I fell in love with it. Now, if you told me that I have a career in it, I would've been, "That'd be great, but that's not true." But I think as a dancer, being a dancer has just shown me the possibilities are there as long as they put my mind to it. And for me dance was something I really wanted to do. And so I had to focus and I'm so lucky that I get to wake up every day and even during COVID get to wake up every day and do a job that I love. And to be a great advocate at the same time, which is great.
Rachel Byrne:
And this has actually also taken you sort of, as you said, you're now all around the US, but you've also traveled around the world with dance and what it does. It is really such a phenomenal piece that allows for so many different opportunities, which is wonderful.
Rachel Byrne:
But another question for you, Peter, and this is a conversation that you and I had, you've spoken about it teaching you how to move your body and understanding your body, and I know you told me a story a little while ago about that you were experiencing pain and you thought at the time it was something to do with cerebral palsy, but through dance and actually understanding your body, you realized it was something different.
Peter Trojic:
So I actually remember the first time I interacted with Cerebral Palsy Foundation, it was at an event where Tracy was speaking actually. And I was on stage next to Tracy and I was doing On Display, and maybe two hours before then I had just come from the doctor and I had found out that shoulder pain I had been dealing with most of my life, that I had written off as just a part of the CP was actually a torn shoulder. So that was like, I actually, I stopped climbing after that day, because I had to get my shoulder back in shape. And now that was what, maybe five years ago, four years ago. Now four years later I have, they're still there, the shoulder pain, but it's not the same level.
Peter Trojic:
So it taught me to listen to my body in different ways. It actually encouraged me to go back to physical therapy because I understood what the physical therapist wanted me to do or the occupational therapist wanted me to do. Whereas before I was doing what they wanted me to do, but I didn't understand the mechanics behind it. And I didn't see a point to it in the same way I do now. It just helped me listen to my body, if that makes sense.
Rachel Byrne:
Yeah. No, and I think that's such an important piece, when we are thinking about physical therapy and the purpose and the why, and all those different things, as adults, we do get this opportunity to be like, "Okay, we are doing this for us because we want to do a certain activity or we want to feel better or we can set these goals." So what would you tell younger self? So this is the thing, obviously you'd always enjoy dance, but you really didn't think that was going to be an opportunity for you. But if you could go back and tell, that person, that your younger self when you were 10 or 12 years old, what advice would you give them?
Peter Trojic:
I would just say the one thing I regret is that I didn't try it sooner, because I let stigma that I created for myself, allowed it got in my way in a lot of things. Like I wanted to pursue acting and I didn't do that and I'm pursuing it now. But I wish I had started when I was 17, 18, because I feel like I don't want to say I would've been further along, but I would've been more fulfilled instead of switching career so many times. And I'm glad I did it, but I would just say follow what you want to do and just commit to it. And I think that this is the lesson that I've learned this year is committing to it because this year as a performer has been extremely difficult for me, because actually, I can't have duets right now.
Peter Trojic:
Like I think the performance you saw in October with Jackie, where we filmed it was one of our last ones that we did. I think it was our second to last one we did as a duet, but now if we wanted to do it, we couldn't just because of the current situation. But I've learned that I really like doing it and there's going to be ups and downs in life, and like this year and you just have to push through it. It's not always going to be easy. I had to change how I ate and how I used the chair. I learned how to use my chair in a whole different way, and I daily continue to learn, I don't know how to phrase this, how to use my chair in different ways and just listen to... I guess if I could go back, I would say, listen to what you want to do and don't be afraid to do it because you will end up doing it. It may not be the path you expected, but it's the path that you were meant to be on, if that makes any sense.
Rachel Byrne:
That makes so much sense. And I think the other piece that I'll just let everyone in on as well, is that, Peter's done a lot of different parts for the Foundation over the years and one of them is supporting our, Just Say Hi Program. So our inclusion program in schools and we've been fortunate enough that Peter comes and really does a lot of different training components for teachers, because I think it is those pieces and some of the bits that I really has resonated with me, Peter, when you are telling your story and particularly telling what it was like in school is that, those people that really believed in you, and those ones that pushed you to be better, and pushed to try new things and go outside of your comfort zone. So I think it's so important that's the message that you would tell yourself, is to go, give it a go, give it a try, you can do this and you will succeed.
Peter Trojic:
Exactly. I remember the story I told you, and I told this in front of the teachers, I had a paraprofessional in high school and we were together for two and a half years. And before my senior year, she told me, "You need to start using a chair." And I said, "That's great, but I don't know if everyone in my life will be on board with it." And she's like, "I'll help you get this school to get you a chair and get you in the chair and stuff."
Peter Trojic:
So she had me use the chair because the way I use crutches, it wasn't fitting to independence for me in what I needed to do. And she's the one who pushed me to use the chair, not as a disabling device, but as an enabling device. And I remember three years ago, I reconnected with her on Facebook and I wrote her and I said, "Hey, I'm a professional dancer right now. And if you hadn't pushed me to be using the chair or just pushing the boundaries of what I could do rather, because I think that's what the chair did for me, was I wouldn't have been in that situation." So it was really important that I lucked out that not everyone in my life was supportive, but from my parents to that paraprofessional to teachers in my life, they saw a potential that I didn't see in myself yet. And so they were great influencers in my life to get me where I am now.
Peter Trojic:
I mean, long story short, I adopted a dog during COVID and I broke my finger while I was moving, because I broke it on her leash and I had to move with one hand. And it was, I broke my stronger hands, so I had to move with my hand that wasn't as coordinated. And I think, 10 years ago I wouldn't have been able to do it, but because of the people in my life pushing me, I think I learned how to do that. And honestly dance did help because being a wheelchair user with one hand is no fun, but I figured it out because I had the dance training and I just had this will to move on.
Peter Trojic:
And I know that 2020 has been a very a difficult year for everyone. And I think that in reflecting back on my past, teachers and adults in my life growing up really influenced me to get me where I am today. And it's been wonderful. I think, Just Say Hi is a great program because I actually have a twin brother. He can walk. So he would actually just go up to people, kids in school and say hi.
Peter Trojic:
And I remember there was this disabled kid, this other kid was cerebral palsy. And he just walked up to this kid and said, hi. And his mother wrote my mother and said, "Hey, my son has CP and your son said, 'hello.' So can we said play date?" And my mother was like, well, because this is before like text messaging or anything like that. This is when we had answering machines with the tape and stuff, and my mom was like, "Well, actually his twin Peter has CP as well." And so we actually became friends through that, and it was just because my brother, and I kid you not, actually just walked up to the kid and just said, hi.
Peter Trojic:
And I did think that's why when I heard about the Cerebral Palsy Foundation's initiative, I think that's important because I think inclusion doesn't start in adulthood. I think inclusion starts in K through 12 preschool, early in life. And I think that those formative years serve as a microcosm for life. And so I think if non-disabled and disabled children learn inclusion alike, then I think it'll make for a better world. So I think that's why the Just Say Hi initiative is important.
Rachel Byrne:
And we are so thankful to obviously have you on board and have you on our team when we actually do all the professional development with the teachers and things like that. Because, we couldn't agree with you more. We really do think when we are thinking about inclusion, when it should start and well, it's just a part of life and it should start at birth, but really more than anything, going, okay, students don't know what they don't know. So education and everything around that is so important. And that's where Just Say Hi, and this inclusion curriculum comes into play.
Rachel Byrne:
But we have had got someone else. So David is just saying, "I think the ability to adapt and do things differently with CP is what makes many of us stronger because then the doubt that you had at the beginning, make sure approach everything else, moving forward the same, and you will think of how can I do this instead of, I just can't do this? I really am enjoying your story." Thanks so much for listening, David and being here.
Rachel Byrne:
Adam also is saying hi as well. And I think, Peter, before we finish, I definitely want everyone to be reminded of what is happening on Thursday.
Peter Trojic:
Okay. So we are doing On Display Global, which is what I explained in the beginning, but just quickly, it's an international worldwide initiative that Heidi Latsky Dance started in 2015 to commemorate International Day of People with Disability. Sorry, I always butcher the name with a mouthful. And it's a way... Sorry, my dog is barking. It's a way for communities around the world to get together and celebrate the day. And we do something called On Display, which is what I talked about in the beginning, which is a living sculpture court. And we're encouraging people if they want to participate whether as an audience member or even been as a participant over the Zoom to do it. And it's a very simple movement to exercise that I've done for years. I actually probably do it in my daily life when I warm up to dance.
Peter Trojic:
And I'm going to do a little bit of it for you now. So the rule is, you're not supposed to wear jewelry. You're just supposed to wear white. Normally I'm wearing white tops and bottoms, but with Zoom, so I actually only had a white top today that was clean. So I put on a white top and that's what you can see. So all I would do is I would close, so I start with my eyes closed and I take a pose like this. And the then, slowly I move and I just open my eyes. And I hold that pose for as long as possible without talking. And it really gives me that opportunity to revert the gaze and really own who I am as a person and say, "This is what I want you to see versus, this is what you see."
Peter Trojic:
And so I would maybe move like this, and then stop and open my eyes again. And the whole idea is to move imperceptively. So I can do this for hours, and I may only move once. And actually in July, I did this in my bedroom and I accidentally tipped backwards onto my bed for my wheelchair. And I just stayed on the bed and I was a sculpture on the bed, but I really think that if anyone of you wants to even participate, I'm holding a workshop tomorrow and it'll be shared on Facebook, all the information, a workshop tomorrow on how to do it. And I'll go over the rules in more depth. But like Rachel said, CPF is being an hour at this time. So three to four Eastern, they're hosting an hour over our Zoom. All the info will be on Facebook or wherever. And I will... You can come tomorrow to my workshop. And if you have any questions, feel free to direct message me or email me. My email's at peter@heidilatskydance.org [crosstalk 00:29:40].
Rachel Byrne:
We'll share that, make sure it's all in the comments and everyone can [crosstalk 00:29:45].
Peter Trojic:
Perfect. So yeah, email me with any questions. I really want to see as many people with cerebral palsy all around the world do this, especially in this hour. Because I think it'd be great to show community. And I can say that I've heard of groups in the past who've done it.
Peter Trojic:
And I just want to quickly tell the story of a group in Italy who did this. And it was a group of disabled persons, and they did it and they hadn't really owned their display identity before, and through that they learned advocacy and they started advocating for rights within their small town. And I remember the next year, they got a dispensation from the town's governor and they still do it to this day. This will be maybe their fifth or fourth year doing it. And it's amazing what I've seen it do for people with and without disabilities around the world, just like own their bodies for who they are own their physicality.
Peter Trojic:
Because I think what it's shown me is that, what On Display showed me is I joke. It showed me what 10 years of probably therapy would've showed me, that my body is valid. And I think that it's a hard task. It's not easy, but the instructions are simple. So it's for you. It's not for anyone else. And so you can go into yourself and just explore who you are. So if you are interested in participating, please come and join us. And I hope to see you guys tomorrow on Zoom, and I hope to see you on Thursday and please if you haven't already, [crosstalk 00:31:36]. Yeah.
Rachel Byrne:
And it's hard. If you've never, if you've thought, all right, I don't know how to do this. I've never done it before. I've never danced before this. It's not just about dance, it's really is about performing and it's about being together as this collective. So if you want to have an opportunity to learn from Peter, tomorrow is the day to do it and we will put all the information in.
Rachel Byrne:
But one final thing as well, if you're listening, remember today is Giving Tuesday. It is the biggest global day of giving throughout the world. And we just want to say, thank you, obviously to our community who has been so generous today already. But if you haven't and you do have a dollar to spare, we would be forever grateful.
Rachel Byrne:
Peter, as always, it's been amazing chatting with you and we will, hopefully, many of you we'll see you tomorrow. And oh Lucy, thank you. "Both truly beautiful people in conversation." Lucy, you are amazing. We are lucky to have you around and we'll have to get you on one of these as well. All right, Peter. Wonderful.
Peter Trojic:
Thank you.
Rachel Byrne:
We'll see you tomorrow. Bye.
Peter Trojic:
Okay great. Bye, everyone.